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The .25-35 Remington Revisited
by George Hoyem

.25-35 Remington Experimental

The March 2000 Collector page illustrates an odd rimless cartridge headstamped U.M.C. 25-35 REM that Rick Montgomery lent us for this study. It is shown between the .25 Remington auto-loading cartridge and the .25-35 Winchester. The U.M.C. cartridge is obviously a factory load but the shoulder is farther down the case than on the .25-35 Winchester and the neck is longer. It is of the same tapered construction as the Winchester case, with a much smaller case capacity than the .25 Remington auto-loader. Since then three of our arms/ammunition historians have studied this problem-Roy Marcot, Lou Behling and Howard Hoovestol. We summarize their findings.

John Browning's autoloading rifle was introduced by Remington in late 1906. The 1908 catalogue first announced it as the "Autoloading Rifle," but this was later changed to Model 8. It further states: "Note - Rifles adapted for the 25/35 Rem, central fire and rimless, will be announced as soon as ready." The 1909 Remington lists the following calibers for this rifle-"....35 caliber Remington Autoloading central fire rimless, smokeless powder cartridge...; also the following cartridges: .25 Rem., 30/30 Rem., and .32 Rem., all central fire and rimless, smokeless powder."

The 1908 catalogue carries the only reference to a ".25-35 REM." The cartridge we are concerned about was made by Union Metallic Cartridge Company. Remington-UMC did not come into being until 1911. From all of this it is apparent that U.M.C, experimented with a rimless .25 caliber case for Remington no doubt as early as 1906. They may have trimmed the rim off a .25-35 Winchester case and cut an extraction groove. They also altered the
shape of the case body. The first attempts were rejected. Perhaps Remington was dissatisfied with the cartridge's performance; perhaps there were feeding problems. Whatever, the case was redesigned to give it greater powder capacity, sharper shoulder, shorter neck as we know the .25 Remington cartridge today. The experimentals were no doubt scrapped. But why did U.M.C. go to the trouble of headstamping the first cartridge? We can only surmise that the project was well along before Remington decided to reject the first design. Lou tells the story of a boy who accompanied his father on a tour of an ammunition plant, and the tour guide reached into a big barrel full of rejected cartridge cases, and handed the boy one. This was the only specimen of this case that survived, and made that boy a cartridge collector. U.M.C. and Remington scrapped the rejected cartridges but at least one found its way out of the U.M.C. plant-the one that Rick shared with us.

A problem remains. Since there is at least one headstamped .25-35 REM cartridge, are there very early Remington Autoloading rifles chambered for it? Probably not. If any were so chambered, they could have been reamed out to accept the final cartridge design. This is theory. If you have an old .25 caliber Remington Autoloader that won't chamber the .25 Remington cartridge, we have a new problem. Meanwhile, all cartridge collectors please check your cabinets for .25-35 REM cartridges headstamped U.M.C. There may he more than one out there. If you see holes in this analysis, let's hear from you

George Hoyem

.25-35 Remington Experiemntal in center Left: .25 Remington

Center: .25-35 Remington Experimental

Right: .25-35 Winchester

 

Our thanks to Rick Montgomery for sharing this rare and unusual specimen with us.

 

.25-35 Remington Dimensions
(from specimen)

Inches mm
Bullet Diameter 0.250 6.3
Rim Diameter 0.420 10.7
Base Diameter 0.415 10.5
Neck Diameter 0.285 7.2
Case Length 2.020 51.3
OAL 2.520 64.0

.25 Remington Dimensions

Inches mm
Bullet Diameter 0.259 6.3
Rim Diameter 0.422 10.7
Base Diameter 0.422 10.7
Neck Diameter 0.287 7.3
Case Length 2.050 52.1
OAL 2.530 68.9

At least one marked example of a Remington Model 8 in .25-35 Remington exists!

.25-35 Remington Markings on a Remington Model 8

Remington Model 8
Remington Model 8

Remington Model 8 pictures courtesy of Paul Pelfrey, Thanks Paul!!


The following images are courtesy of Roy Marcot. They show the continued developmental process of .25 caliber cartridges after the U.M.C. and Remington merger in 1911. Only the first drawing has the new "The Remington Arms Union Metallic Cartridge Company" letterhead. The others have the older "Union Metallic Cartridge Co." letterhead.

This first drawing of the .25 Remington is dated 1-14-1920

.25 Remington drawing dated 1-14-1920

The second drawing of the .25 Remington is dated 6-2-1913

.25 Remington dated 6-2-1913

The third drawing of the .25 Remington is dated 5-23-1913.

.25 Remington dated 5-23-1913

The fourth drawing of the set is of a .25 Remington, High Power dated 6-12-1913.

.25 Remington, High Power dated 6-12-1913

.25 Remington, High Power Dimensions
(from drawing 4)

Inches mm
Bullet Diameter 0.258 6.3
Rim Diameter 0.460 11.7
Base Diameter 0.475 12.1
Neck Diameter 0.362 9.2
Case Length 2.190 55.6
OAL 2.625 66.7

 

 

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